Weaken cleric poll

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Weaken clerics

Poll ended at 4:44 pm, Tue Feb 07, 2017

Yes
8
80%
No
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 7:36 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Slick wrote:your facts are flawed and therefore not worth reading.
Facts are facts Slick. You can choose to ignore them if you like, but that doesn't change that they exist.

Whether you JUSTIFY them by saying "Clerics are supposed to be as tanky as they are because of their ley, the game structure, whatever" fine, but that doesn't change the facts. They are as tanky as they are, and I am making that readily available for all to see. Just because you think it's OK that Clerics are that tanky, doesn't mean others might agree with you. They can make up their own minds.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 8:07 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law, you're dishonest.

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 8:16 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:Law, you're dishonest.
Math doesn't lie, pop this in the calculator.

Firestorm - 63 average damage, 17 mana = 3.7 dmg per mana
Maelstrom - 93 average damage, 25 mana = 3.72 dmg per mana
Tornado - 81 average damage, 22 mana = 3.68 dmg per mana
Boulder - 63 - 100 average damage, 17 mana = 3.7 - 5.88 damage per mana

Boulder is great, but you honestly think you can hit it consistently at max range? The projectile is HUGE and you can't see the person you're shooting at after the first shot.

So you're really going to compare something that requires very close range to hit that also hugs the ground, to a storm that can shoot very far away near instantly?

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 8:35 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law, once again, you cannot use a Why to invalidate a What.

Earth is superior to DK clerics. That is a What. I know it is a What, because I both designed and did such. Your supplied Why does not invalidate the What. Rather than trying to show Why the What exists, you are trying to show the Why of What does not exist.

You don't want to play an Earth mage? Fine, then don't complain about clerics.

You don't want to play a Void arc? Fine, then don't complain about clerics.

You don't want to play a Mind ment? Fine, then don't complain about clerics.

You're rationalizing. Rationalizing is a defense mechanism based entirely around ones own emotions. You don't want to play a fighter that isn't an armor arc nor f/I mage, so you're rationalizing that personal choice.

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 8:38 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

.....what?

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 8:44 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

You're rationalizing. It's immature and dishonest.

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Slick
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Slick » 9:33 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law wrote:Firestorm - 63 average damage, 17 mana = 3.7 dmg per mana
If you are going to speak "facts" - please present "facts". As you will see your "facts" are flawed.

There are quite a few assumptions going on. Assuming the wizard has full ley. Assuming all 3 of the Fire Storm projectiles hit. Assuming that this cast of Fire Storm does average damage. Assuming you get direct hits and not splash. OK cool - we will work with those assumptions.

From the current spell.dat:

damage_dice=10
damage_num_dice=2
damage_base=9
num_projectiles=3

The above translates to this:
-- two 10 sided dice are rolled and a base of 9 is added to the result.
-- 2 to 20 per roll plus the base of 9 has a range of 11 to 29 per projectile
-- Fire Storm has 3 projectiles which gives a potential of 33 to 87
-- average is 20 damage per projectile or 60 average damage per cast
-- Fire Storm is a level 17 spell. Spell power is spell level.
-- dmg per mana is 3.529

http://anydice.com/program/600c

Limitless
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Limitless » 9:57 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Ryan wrote:
Kuraokami wrote:Earth still does increased damage on distance on boulder, and torn is still buffed, so both have the highest damage potential/mana to clerics.
More than Cball 1? Are Ball 1s nerfed on this version?
LIKE

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 10:01 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Slick wrote:some things
http://www.sold-guild.com/msstats/

Just going with what I have. Was my math wrong, or just my information?

You're just taking unrelated things and trying to discredit my Cleric facts. Go ahead, do the math on Clerics yourself, and report back on how it's flawed. Be my guest.

-- Cleric's effective HP is 480. Is that wrong? 288 max HP, 40% damage reduction. Fact check, please.
-- Cleric's Healing 7 undoes 100 points worth of damage to the Cleric. Is that wrong? Fact check, please.
-- Cleric's H7 undoes 100 points of damage for 15 mana, making it 6.67 heal per power spent. Is that wrong? Fact check please.
Kuraokami wrote:You don't want to play a fighter that isn't an armor arc nor f/I mage, so you're rationalizing that personal choice.
Kura.. if you read my post I said my favorite Arc build was MS/UV/Bleed 3. Go look, it's not even edited. You don't read my posts man.

I also said I played all 4 Mage types, it's my favorite class. My favorite type of mage is Fire/Earth. Since I have tried it all, I can tell you from experience, Earth is not anything special and certainly doesn't beat Clerics faster than anything else.

Honestly bro you sound really out of touch with reality, I feel like I'm talking to a crazy person. You don't respond to what I say, at all, you just make up your own narrative. It's kind of concerning. Seriously.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 10:06 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law, grow the fuck up.

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Slick
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Slick » 10:47 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law wrote:
Slick wrote:some things
i didnt say this. if you are going to quote me - it best be something i said.

no, nothing about unrelated anything... i took the first "fact" and proved it was wrong. i could continue to shred the rest of your facts - but i think the point has been made quite clear.

i find it quite comical that you are trying to boast all this and you have no arc or wizard or mentalist...

who was this mythical level 30 wizard that you beat down with wound 1?

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 10:58 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Look, I am all in favor of toning clerics down by around 10%. However, given the clamour, I was under the impression that Sorien had reverted some of my balancing back to MSN values. I have point blank directly tested earth, Void, and Mind, for specifically the entire reason this thread exists, prior to reset. People refusing to play specs that are outright designed to curb the effectiveness of Clerics, in favor of fighting better versus fighters, is not a valid excuse for the level of complaints being made against clerics. Specs are part of the game. Play the game as it has been designed, or don't complain when the game does not play as it has been designed. Be a solution, or be a problem.

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Slick
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Slick » 11:15 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

good example: solid walls

solution: dispell cleric

doesnt mean im gonna play one.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 11:29 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

That's why boulder is at 100.8 average damage lol

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 11:34 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Slick wrote:no, nothing about unrelated anything... i took the first "fact" and proved it was wrong. i could continue to shred the rest of your facts - but i think the point has been made quite clear.
I knew you'd resort to this. LOL!

Give me a break Slick. You know my facts about Clerics are right. Get the fuck outta here.


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