Weaken cleric poll

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Weaken clerics

Poll ended at 4:44 pm, Tue Feb 07, 2017

Yes
8
80%
No
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 4:25 am, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law, man, I know how to do math lol especially since I set many of the values myself

Torn is 81. Boulder is 63-94.5 (or 100.8, I forget) depending on distance travelled.

I wrote this around 8 hours ago, but it's still relevant:

DK clerics are hard to stop without walls. Why are there no walls? Because people disable walls in matches. Why do people disable walls in matches? Because walls are too strong and ruin the game.


Earth Law is a direct counter to earth wall and stone wall. Fire Law is a direct counter to cold wall, ice wall, and wood wall. Ice Law is a direct counter to air wall and water wall. Mana Law is a direct counter to void wall. Void Law is a direct counter to Mana Law. All bolts are secondary counters for all walls.


DK clerics kill my fighter. Why do they kill your fighter? DK deals damage faster to me than I deal to the cleric.


Earth Law deals damage faster to a cleric than a cleric can deal to a magician. Void Law disables a clerics casting. Mind Law is a direct counter to clerics.


Are people attempting to pretend that Earth Law, Void Law, and Mind Law don't exist and then questioning why the game isn't playing as designed?

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 5:48 am, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:I didn't read Law's post
Bro read my post. If you're gonna reply to my post, say some relevant shit please. You completely whiffed the whole point of my post, how it connected to your statement, everything. You didn't read it.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 1:18 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law, I did read it. It was wrong.

What characters do you have?

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Sorien
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Sorien » 2:11 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

All walls of the same element of the hitting spell are immune. (Cold wall vs Ice Storm, etc.)
All walls except for Void walls take double damage from void spells.
All walls take full damage from bolts.
Void walls are immune to void.
Mana walls are immune to mana.
Earth element walls are effected as normal by earth.
Cold element walls are effected as normal by fire.
Nature element walls are effected as normal by fire.
Air element walls are effected as normal by cold.
All other combinations do 40% less damage to the wall.

Woodwall (Nature), 100% Bolts, 100% Fire, 200% Void, 0% Same Element (Non-Bolt), 60% Other
Airwall (Air), 100% Bolts, 100% Cold, 200% Void, 0% Same Element (Non-Bolt), 60% Other
Wall of Cold/Icewall/Water Wall (Cold), 100% Bolts, 100% Fire, 200% Void, 0% Same Element (Non-Bolt), 60% Other
Earthwall/Stonewall (Earth), 100% Bolts, 100% Earth, 200% Void, 60% Other
Mana Wall (Mana), 100% Bolts, 200% Void, 0% Same Element (Non-Bolt), 60% Other
Void Wall (Void), 100% Bolts, 200% Void, 0% Same Element (Non-Bolt), 60% Other

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 3:16 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:Law, I did read it. It was wrong.

What characters do you have?
No, you're wrong. You didn't read the fucking post.

Because IN the post, it showed that 30 Cl's with P5 have 480 effective HP. How many Tornadoes is that, genius? 6. I've played a 30 Mage quite a bit and guess what, you can only shoot 5 Tornadoes in a burst, and that's at full ley.

IN the post, it showed that 30 Mages have 206 HP, so that's 4 - 5 DK depending on rolls. So your argument that Earth burns Clerics down faster is wrong, NOTHING BURNS CLERICS DOWN FASTER. It's IN the post.

The post outlined how Clerics can heal themselves with Healing 7 almost twice as efficiently as Mage's most efficient spell can deal damage. So, you can't kill them with a burst, and you can't win the long game through efficiency. You can't win.

You probably aren't even reading this far down, but Void doesn't counter Clerics. Arcs have the hardest time with Clerics because they have no means of clearing out Airwalls faster than the Cleric can throw them up. All these Clerics that get mad about Void are just mad that they have to run back and recharge, they never actually die from that shit 1v1.

Ask any decent Arc how they kill Clerics, the answer is footbombing. Not Void.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 4:19 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law, what characters do you have?

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 4:38 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:Law, what characters do you have?
Completely irrelevant to the facts that I was talking about.

On the previous server I had 4 Mages. Fire/Ice, Ice/Earth, Fire/Earth, and Boulder/Firestorm/Icestorm Tri. All level 30.

I think I had one Arc, maybe two. I had four accounts with characters. I leveled two Arcs to 30, and then deleted one for some reason. I tried multiple specs but my favorite and most fun was MS/UV/Bleed 3.

Your buff to Manaball 2 (moving it down to 21) completely made that build irrelevant. It was already a gimp build, but now that any Arc can combo MB2 with MS, UV lost a lot of significance. Your ideas on "UV is for long distance" shows you've never played a UV Arc, because the only point of Void mid-combat is to cut down the player's burst potential. It's better to Manastorm people at long distances.

I had one Cleric, got him to 27 ish. Playing OP classes is not fun. I remember beating a 30 Mage 1v1 late night when he had all pools with Wounding 1.

I have a 30 Cleric on this server, no_prayer, and I can 1v1 Arcs pretty well. They have a really hard time with Airwalls. Void doesn't kill anybody, it just prolongs the fight, and you can never void a Cleric so much that they can't cast Airwalls.

I could never level a Ment. If you gave me a 30 Ment I'd play it, but I'm not going through ~20 ish levels where my best spells are auto aimed. Boring.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 4:52 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

They're not irrelevant. They simply don't support your determinism. Determinism 101: Why can not invalidate What.

Is Earth more effective versus Clerics than Fire and Ice? Yes or no?

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 5:05 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:They're not irrelevant. They simply don't support your determinism. Determinism 101: Why can not invalidate What.

Is Earth more effective versus Clerics than Fire and Ice? Yes or no?
No. Look at the math that I displayed *ON THE POST* that you didn't read.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 6:03 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law wrote:
Kuraokami wrote:They're not irrelevant. They simply don't support your determinism. Determinism 101: Why can not invalidate What.

Is Earth more effective versus Clerics than Fire and Ice? Yes or no?
No. Look at the math that I displayed *ON THE POST* that you didn't read.
I did read, and it was wrong. For one, you assume equivalent Ley. For two, you assume equal ease of aim. For three, you ignored boulder, which does 100 damage in mana bolt ii range. For four, you're rationalizing and doing a poor job at it.

If you don't think Earth is more effective vs clerics than Fire and Ice, then you are directly lying.

Earth is more effective vs clerics than Fire and Ice. If you play a Fire and Ice mage, clerics are more effective by your choice. If you play an Earth mage, clerics are less effective by your choice. If you play a Signs arc, clerics are more effective by your choice. If you play a Void arc, clerics are less effective by your choice. If you play a Mind ment, clerics are less effective by your choice.

You are now directly rationalizing your own spec for your own classes.

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Slick
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Slick » 7:06 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

-- dont think law has anything but a no prayer cleric.
-- all arguments are based on 1 vs 1.
-- no mention of ley.

this thread should be locked or deleted.
Last edited by Slick on 7:17 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017, edited 2 times in total.

Kuraokami
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Kuraokami » 7:15 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

If I spend my time, just to find out that f/I mages and armor arcs are trying to remove specs and classes, ima be pissed.

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Slick
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Slick » 7:20 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:If I spend my time, just to find out that f/I mages and armor arcs are trying to remove specs and classes, ima be pissed.
you can always try to find a cleric in an 5 person ffa to 1 vs 1. :lol:

Law
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Law » 7:25 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Kuraokami wrote:If I spend my time, just to find out that f/I mages and armor arcs are trying to remove specs and classes, ima be pissed.
You should spend your time reading people's goddamn posts. I swear to god you reply to my first two sentences and then assume the rest. It's truly aggravating.

Also I never "ignored Boulder", good fucking luck getting 5 hits in a row at max distance consistently. Also if you *READ THE POST* and did the math, DK kills Mages in 4 - 5 DK and Boulder would still need 5. Keep smoking that crack, Kura.

Fire is much better versus Clerics because of *ease of aim*, because Firestorm is stupid easy to aim and get hits with, and Maelstrom hits like a goddamn truck.
Last edited by Law on 7:32 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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Slick
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Re: Weaken cleric poll

Postby Slick » 7:31 pm, Thu Apr 13, 2017

Law wrote: You should spend your time reading people's goddamn posts. I swear to god you reply to my first two sentences and then assume the rest. It's truly aggravating.
your facts are flawed and therefore not worth reading.


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