Make Magestorm great again

[Apoc1313]

I now think magestorm is meant to be played by the mentally challenged.

[Apoc1313]

Does this make sense to people? Is it possible to implement? <--- no it is not.

[Apoc1313]

I can see that ppl are stuck in their ways 20 years later- I can't figure out how to make this poll, So I'm going to spend my time elsewhere- was fun bros GGs.

[Healy]

healy jus called clerics balanced, wow.
.

i didnt really say that.

What i meant was that the programmers probably made clerics that strong with the reasoning that they would be the main target of everyone.

[Healy]

Sor would it be possible to make a spell that reduces healing on target ,like a debuff?

Also id really prefer having different heal spells,like symbol but weaker and the symbol targetable and killable.

[Realmjumper]

I don't think nerfing clerics is a good idea. Their ley sucks when not at their shrine for one. I haven't played the game but last time I played I didn't find them to be OP.

[Kuraokami]

If you want to disagree, Apoc, then disagree, but you would be hard pressed to challenge my intelligence. The desire people are having is a push-pull between Clerics being tank (focal point) or support (tertiary focus); the third option is DPS (secondary focus, increased game speed). They were originally the first, then we transitioned it into the second, and with their redesign I pushed it into the 3rd. So, the first thing you need to do is to have a distinct vision which you can communicate to others, while seeking feedback of their own distinct visions.

[Law]

Right now P5 is 40% so their effective HP is 403.

403 is still double that of a Mage. Also, since Healing 7 heals for 60 (or used to), with 40% of damage reduction it actually heals for 100. 6.66 mana to heal efficiency, about twice what any attack spell has.

IIRC max cleric HP is 288, even though it's only posted as 255. Was this changed? That's where I got 480. Also I don't like to correct people but my math shows me at 40% even if it's 255 their effective HP is 425.

It doesn't have to be *my* nerf, believe it or not I want to play a cleric. I just can't play something that's so obviously overpowered, how do you guys not see it? You have no fear of death, what kind of joke is that, in a PvP game?

Also, thank you for agreeing to nerf Cleric early game. I would love to see the game balanced at all levels, where it's a moderately pleasant experience for all participants.

This is a team game, 2 skilled people can drop a cleric in a timely fashion.

While I respect your gameplay and your wishes I just don't think this is fair. Nobody should have the privilege of being unbeatable 1v1 in a PvP game. It's anti fun and anti fair. Not only that, clerics have ultimate shrining ability. They can literally win the game and you (as one person) can't do a damn thing about it.

If one's vision of a cleric is that they are a hero to the team, then one is self-interested first and interested in supporting others second, if at all.

Well said, Kura. I play support classes a lot and am the kind of guy to use the last of my mana throwing one last heal out to save my buddy instead of saving myself. That is exactly how I feel clerics' role is assumed by this community. *THE* team not a member of one. "But.. clerics need to be OP because how else would they solo win games?"

You cant just one vs one a cleric of equal level and expect him to die easily,you have to play smart,with your team to counter him.

I think you have it backwards buddy. Everybody should need to play smart, not just your opponents. If healing your team is your primary goal, you can hide, have proper positioning, and if you die that's just fine!

I feel like you want your team to need you, but not vice versa. It's a symbiotic relationship. Healers in other games are weak by themselves, but their presence brings a team together and makes them a much stronger unit. Clerics in Magestorm are one-man teams and their teammates are merely tertiary.

Also, the reason they don't focus you is because it's futile, not because they're stupid. I've never seen you play anything other than a cleric so I doubt you know the experience of registering 20 hits on a cleric while he hops around and doesn't die. It's truly unnerving.

[Healy]

I think you have it backwards buddy. Everybody should need to play smart, not just your opponents. If healing your team is your primary goal, you can hide, have proper positioning, and if you die that's just fine!

I feel like you want your team to need you, but not vice versa. It's a symbiotic relationship. Healers in other games are weak by themselves, but their presence brings a team together and makes them a much stronger unit. Clerics in Magestorm are one-man teams and their teammates are merely tertiary.

Also, the reason they don't focus you is because it's futile, not because they're stupid. I've never seen you play anything other than a cleric so I doubt you know the experience of registering 20 hits on a cleric while he hops around and doesn't die. It's truly unnerving.

No i think u misunderstand me,i totally agree to all your points.

I just pointed out how it is now,i didnt mean it has to be like that.
Ive played all classes multiple times to lvl 30,just played cleric the most of them.

So your saying clerics are one man teams,i agree but thats not because they are tanks alone its because they are tanks,can slow ur movement wall u into a small area and then rape u with hammers.
Heals have to take more mana,prayer needs to do less protection ,hammers need to do less dmg,the fracture line should be completely removed from clerics.
But thats just my opinion and i wont force it on anyone,or act like a kid and say mememe im leaving if u dont change this or that.
I ll still play this game forever whatever gets changed

[Law]

No i think u misunderstand me,i totally agree to all your points.

Right on. My perspective, as playing Arc and Mage mains, is that Clerics are the biggest pain in the ass in the game to where I don't even like fighting them. They can spam Air Wall and block end game spells with a level 1 spell, and when you do hit them they shrug off Manastorms like they're Manastrikes.

I respect your opinion.

My perspective is, rather, instead of removing all their utility and build variety, we balance them so they can be used without griefing. I think what makes Clerics so OP is that they don't die. If they could die, like you said, sure they have para and walls, but people just focus them and with a reasonable amount of force they go down.

I want to make them killable and then give them more utility. If you didn't see my para nerf suggestion, I want to make Para useable to where it feels fair and people don't grief. You can have a cleric that keeps one guy "chain stunned" with para while his two teammates kill em. The low duration + high mana cost means he can't para and then also kill them himself, he invests a lot to keep him locked down. Teamwork is fun.

I want to give clerics gameplay options, I want to add more depth to the game. So much of Clerics' kit is rejected by the community because it's "OP". With 8 max wall count, solid walls are a joke. With 1 or 2, you could have stonewall and it wouldn't feel OP, maybe NSW would be a thing of the past. Symbol of Healing, AOE heal, Remedy Other, give them everything.

As long as you can kill that guy controlling the battlefield to their advantage, then it's fun and not OP.

[Healy]

I feel like giving them more stuff is just more shit people are going to complain about.
Symbol of healing for example,will make clerics OP again even if u nerf them,cause u can just sit in a symbol spamm heal 3 and never die even with 3 people shooting you.
Making everything less mana effecient on clerics is definately the way to go,and a couple spell value nerfs=less healing,less protection,less dmg(nothing huge tho just all around a couple points less)

Now make a poll Law^^

[Sorien]

Sor would it be possible to make a spell that reduces healing on target ,like a debuff?

Also id really prefer having different heal spells,like symbol but weaker and the symbol targetable and killable.

I'm pretty sure I already implemented the reduced healing attribute, and you *can* kill Symbol, it dies faster the more enemies standing around it.

[Sorien]

Sor would it be possible to make a spell that reduces healing on target ,like a debuff?

Also id really prefer having different heal spells,like symbol but weaker and the symbol targetable and killable.

I'm pretty sure I already implemented the reduced healing attribute, and you *can* kill Symbol, it dies faster the more enemies standing around it.

403 is still double that of a Mage. Also, since Healing 7 heals for 60 (or used to), with 40% of damage reduction it actually heals for 100. 6.66 mana to heal efficiency, about twice what any attack spell has.

You can either go with effective HP or effective heals when referring to that mechanic, not both.

IIRC max cleric HP is 288, even though it's only posted as 255. Was this changed? That's where I got 480. Also I don't like to correct people but my math shows me at 40% even if it's 255 their effective HP is 425.

Previously Magestorm stored HP in a single byte but I changed that to an int when I implemented stat points. The formula never changed and clerics were technically supposed to have 288 but the byte cap disallowed for it.

288/100 = 2.88
2.88 * 40 = 115.2 (rounded to 115)
115 + 288 = 403

I'm not sure where you're getting 425 from.

[Healy]

Sor would it be possible to make a spell that reduces healing on target ,like a debuff?

Also id really prefer having different heal spells,like symbol but weaker and the symbol targetable and killable.

I'm pretty sure I already implemented the reduced healing attribute, and you *can* kill Symbol, it dies faster the more enemies standing around it.

but could you make it a spell for lets say Ments.
This is just an example.....

lvl 4 reduce healing by 25% duration 10 seconds
lvl 8 reduce healing by 35% duration 10 seconds
lvl 15 reduce healing by 50% duration for 10 seconds

this would only work in higher levels if u removed FH tho,which id totally be for,full heal is the most unbalanced spell in the game.

Edit: it should work on self heals aswell

[Law]

You can either go with effective HP or effective heals when referring to that mechanic, not both.

I don't understand? For every point of damage you actually take .6, so healing yourself for 60 is equivalent to healing yourself for 100. What I mean by this is, you heal 100 points worth of damage dealt to you.

So an Arcanist paid for 100 points of damage with Manastorm for 27 mana. You're able to nullify that damage with only 15 mana. It's a bit ridiculous.

288/100 = 2.88
2.88 * 40 = 115.2 (rounded to 115)
115 + 288 = 403

I'm not sure where you're getting 425 from.

My math was a bit different, and maybe I am right maybe I am wrong.

For every point of damage you take .6 instead. So how many times does .6 fit into 255?

255 / .6 = 425.

lvl 4 reduce healing by 25% duration 10 seconds
lvl 8 reduce healing by 35% duration 10 seconds
lvl 15 reduce healing by 50% duration for 10 seconds

I honestly am against giving one class countering powers to Clerics versus just nerfing their tankiness as a whole. I would definitely like to see Ments given more utility in their "Mind" field and less pure damage, though.

What about the Arcs and the Mages? Nothing changes for them. Clerics are still impossible to beat 1v1. So, while the argument "This is a team game" comes into play, what does the solo Mage defender do when his team is dead and the solo Cleric runs in and shrines him? He loses, and there's not a damn thing he can do about it. And that is not fair, and that is not fun.