Make Magestorm great again

[Apoc1313]

I am making a poll to nerf clerics to bring balance to Magestorm. If you agree or disagree please add and explain why. For me personally I think it would make our games much better, hitting every shot and dumping all your mana on a cleric jus for him to tank it . Not sure about the specifics of the nerf yet but I think we could find something that works for everyone.

[Apoc1313]

It says I don't have permission to make a poll, - Sorien could ya do that for me please?

[Law]

clerics are OP and the reason is because they are too tanky.

- it's not para because arcs have para and they're fine.
- it's not full heal because clerics don't need to have allies to ruin a game.
- it's not any of their attacks because they're comparatively weak to anything else.
- it's not walls because most games are NSW anyways and other classes have walls.

It's because they can't be killed with a reasonable amount of force. Whoever had the bright idea to make a cleric have higher base HP than anyone else and the ability to heal themselves on top of that and give them a 40% damage reduction self buff on top of that was smoking some fucking crack rocks.

so you cleric picker scumbags who think "kura clerics" were a fucking nerf when you got haste, remedy, aoe heal, aoe rez, bless.. jesus christ.. I guess full heal is level 27 tho! give me a fucking break already.

stop beating around the bush and actually nerf clerics.

[Sorien]

It says I don't have permission to make a poll, - Sorien could ya do that for me please?

I fixed it, you should be able to make polls now.

As for the Clerics thing... I do believe they're still a little OP even after the heal and prayer nerf.

Make a poll for specific changes to Clerics listing things you think should be nerfed.

[Law]

Nerf Suggestion:

- max wall count: 1 (global)

- redo para 1, 2 and 3 (20/30/40), reduce duration to 3 seconds.

- add to lifegiving line and rename: "Altruism"
Bless: 1 - 3 (5/10/15)
symbol of healing: 1 - 2, reduce duration to 15 seconds.
remedy other: 1

- wounding line:
early game wounding made weaker than other spells.
streamline damage so wounding triad isn't garbage.
cramp to 4, fracture to 11, para to 18

- healing line:
early game self heal reduced slightly
return aoe heal: 1 - 2

- prayer adjusted:
Prayer 1 - 5: 10/15/20/25/33
Duration reduced to 15 seconds

Prayer needs a big nerf. It is the reason Clerics are OP. I realize they don't have the mana to armor twist, because their ley is usually at 45%, so both reducing the damage reduction and duration means they have to spend a lot of their mana retaining their tanky state. This means less successful suicide-runs to shrine, among other things.

Clerics are OP early game because they have higher base HP than everyone else, have a very mana efficient self-heal, and their attacks do the same damage as other class' attacks. Their attacks need to be reduced in effectiveness slightly, and their self heals need to be either reduced or raised in level so they are less efficient.

I want to nerf Para to where you can actually use it and it feels fair. There shouldn't be any spell in the game that pisses people off, because then nobody uses it because of community backlash.

There were a lot of cool things made for Clerics in Magestorm: Revival, and we should bring those back. I don't recommend bringing back AoE rez, because that shit was OP.

Also I want to bring back haste and remedy self, but I think those should be ment spells. This is not the thread for that. Also to be fair to all the cleric-mains who disagree with me I think Arcs should be nerfed as well, specifically void and manastorm a tiny bit. Again, not the thread for that.

[Sorien]

- max wall count: 1 (global)

Will never happen. I would be up for a slight reduction in wall count but 1 wall is just ridiculous.

- redo para 1, 2 and 3 (20/30/40), reduce duration to 3 seconds.

Cramp, Fracture, and Para have already been nerfed quite a bit both in duration and strength. 3s duration wouldn't be worth the mana and the spells would become useless.

- add to lifegiving line and rename: "Altruism"
Bless: 1 - 3 (5/10/15)
symbol of healing: 1 - 2, reduce duration to 15 seconds.
remedy other: 1

I'm up for all of those... up to everyone else if they would be put in.

- wounding line:
early game wounding made weaker than other spells.
streamline damage so wounding triad isn't garbage.
cramp to 4, fracture to 11, para to 18

Agreed... W1 and W2 need a bit of a nerf... WT has already been buffed.

- healing line:
early game self heal reduced slightly
return aoe heal: 1 - 2

All heals have already been reduced, and I don't think self heals are the problem.
As for AOE heal, depends on what every else wants.

- prayer adjusted:
Prayer 1 - 5: 10/15/20/25/33
Duration reduced to 15 seconds

Prayer needs a big nerf. It is the reason Clerics are OP. I realize they don't have the mana to armor twist, because their ley is usually at 45%, so both reducing the damage reduction and duration means they have to spend a lot of their mana retaining their tanky state. This means less successful suicide-runs to shrine, among other things.

Prayer has already been nerfed, and the values you propose are almost the same as it is currently except for P4 and P5.
15s on Prayer is ridiculous and will never happen. Prayer costs way too much mana to be considered a reactive skill and Magestorm isn't based around tedium.

Clerics are OP early game because they have higher base HP than everyone else, have a very mana efficient self-heal, and their attacks do the same damage as other class' attacks. Their attacks need to be reduced in effectiveness slightly, and their self heals need to be either reduced or raised in level so they are less efficient.

I agree that low level Wounding needs a little nerf. Self heals have already been nerfed and I don't think that's the right nerf venue.

I want to nerf Para to where you can actually use it and it feels fair. There shouldn't be any spell in the game that pisses people off, because then nobody uses it because of community backlash.

There's plenty of spells in Magestorm that piss people off... Para, Void, Mind. People will be pissed off and whine about anything they don't like whether or not it's overpowered.

[Barren]

Hi,

I think clerics are OK if the ratio of clerics to non-clerics on a team is at least 1:5, maybe even 1:4. Anything greater than 1:4 and it kills the game. If a cleric has 5 people to keep track of, they can't heal them all, so you can still get kills. When it's one cleric for one, two, or three players, it's horrible.

I'm not sure if this is practical to implement, but maybe you can leave clerics as they are, and just have a rule that a cleric cannot join a team unless the ratio of clerics to non-clerics is less than 1:4 or 1:5. You can maybe add in something to kick a cleric off a team whenever the ratio is greater than 1:4 or 1:5. Probably 1:5 is better, so a team of 6 can have one cleric and 5 non-clerics. That doesn'[t sound too bad right?

Does this make sense to people? Is it possible to implement?

Disclaimer: I like playing on clerics and I would like them not to be nerfed.

Regards

Blight/Hellfire/Judgment

[Law]

There's plenty of spells in Magestorm that piss people off... Para, Void, Mind. People will be pissed off and whine about anything they don't like whether or not it's overpowered.

I can't speak for others, and people who have played other games with me know I am not very prone to rage quitting. Let me tell you why I rage quit this game.

There are situations where you can't win. I'm not playing a game that I can't win, that's crazy. When I was fighting you the other day I was 2 levels short and I couldn't beat neither you or Healy, period. I could NOT win. That is not fun.

I'm not the best at this game, I'm not the best at any game. I expect to get beaten. As long as there's a chance, where I say "You know, I could have done X", I don't get mad. But Magestorm is different. A level 2 ment fighting a level 4 ment that minds you, you can't win. You can't dodge. You won't out DPS them. You just lose. 100% of the time. How am I supposed to enjoy this experience?

The best players in this game couldn't stop the worst clerics in this game from beating them. It doesn't matter how good your aim is, you simply don't do enough damage even if you register every single hit to the cleric rushing your shrine. Clerics have 480 effective HP with P5 on. Healing 7 heals 100 effective HP per cast for 15 mana. For comparison, Manastorm hits for 100 for 27 mana and it's the most mana efficient end game spell.

I don't care if you dislike all of my other suggestions, prayer is the #1 priority. Absolutely OP. 480 effective HP. Literally twice anyone else, with the ability to heal themselves. Ridiculous.

Prayer costs way too much mana to be considered a reactive skill and Magestorm isn't based around tedium.

I remember a few years ago you wanted to nerf Shrap Ball I because you didn't like me "machine-gunning" people down. So, please ask yourself, is 15 mana really that much? Would making Cleric's tankiness a little harder to maintain be worth it in exchange for more balanced gameplay?

You should be able to manage yourself well enough to afford 15 mana. If you're out of mana and you eat some damage naked, so be it. Clerics need some flaws, they need holes in their armor. They don't have any, and not only that, they're wearing full plate while the rest of us are in tatters.

Disclaimer: I like playing on clerics and I would like them not to be nerfed.

Hey man, believe it or not, I play support roles in most other games. I'd rather help my friends than kill my enemies. Hear me out for a second on why I think you should support a nerf for clerics.

You said you don't think clerics should join unless there's enough non-clerics to make it viable. This is exactly why clerics are bogus, because in small games one person can't stop the cleric. If clerics were fair, you could play a cleric in a small game with no guilt.

If clerics were beatable, you could play a 2v2 where one team has a cleric and the other doesn't and there's no problem because both teams have a chance.

[Sorien]

There's plenty of spells in Magestorm that piss people off... Para, Void, Mind. People will be pissed off and whine about anything they don't like whether or not it's overpowered.

I can't speak for others, and people who have played other games with me know I am not very prone to rage quitting. Let me tell you why I rage quit this game.

There are situations where you can't win. I'm not playing a game that I can't win, that's crazy. When I was fighting you the other day I was 2 levels short and I couldn't beat neither you or Healy, period. I could NOT win. That is not fun.

I'm not the best at this game, I'm not the best at any game. I expect to get beaten. As long as there's a chance, where I say "You know, I could have done X", I don't get mad. But Magestorm is different. A level 2 ment fighting a level 4 ment that minds you, you can't win. You can't dodge. You won't out DPS them. You just lose. 100% of the time. How am I supposed to enjoy this experience?

The best players in this game couldn't stop the worst clerics in this game from beating them. It doesn't matter how good your aim is, you simply don't do enough damage even if you register every single hit to the cleric rushing your shrine. Clerics have 480 effective HP with P5 on. Healing 7 heals 100 effective HP per cast for 15 mana. For comparison, Manastorm hits for 100 for 27 mana and it's the most mana efficient end game spell.

I don't care if you dislike all of my other suggestions, prayer is the #1 priority. Absolutely OP. 480 effective HP. Literally twice anyone else, with the ability to heal themselves. Ridiculous.

Prayer costs way too much mana to be considered a reactive skill and Magestorm isn't based around tedium.

I remember a few years ago you wanted to nerf Shrap Ball I because you didn't like me "machine-gunning" people down. So, please ask yourself, is 15 mana really that much? Would making Cleric's tankiness a little harder to maintain be worth it in exchange for more balanced gameplay?

You should be able to manage yourself well enough to afford 15 mana. If you're out of mana and you eat some damage naked, so be it. Clerics need some flaws, they need holes in their armor. They don't have any, and not only that, they're wearing full plate while the rest of us are in tatters.

Disclaimer: I like playing on clerics and I would like them not to be nerfed.

Hey man, believe it or not, I play support roles in most other games. I'd rather help my friends than kill my enemies. Hear me out for a second on why I think you should support a nerf for clerics.

You said you don't think clerics should join unless there's enough non-clerics to make it viable. This is exactly why clerics are bogus, because in small games one person can't stop the cleric. If clerics were fair, you could play a cleric in a small game with no guilt.

If clerics were beatable, you could play a 2v2 where one team has a cleric and the other doesn't and there's no problem because both teams have a chance.

The Shrap thing was a joke.lol

Right now P5 is 40% so their effective HP is 357. I would be up to an even further reduction of Prayer 4/5.. P4 from 32 to 30, and P5 from 40 to 36.

[Sorien]

There's plenty of spells in Magestorm that piss people off... Para, Void, Mind. People will be pissed off and whine about anything they don't like whether or not it's overpowered.

I can't speak for others, and people who have played other games with me know I am not very prone to rage quitting. Let me tell you why I rage quit this game.

There are situations where you can't win. I'm not playing a game that I can't win, that's crazy. When I was fighting you the other day I was 2 levels short and I couldn't beat neither you or Healy, period. I could NOT win. That is not fun.

I'm not the best at this game, I'm not the best at any game. I expect to get beaten. As long as there's a chance, where I say "You know, I could have done X", I don't get mad. But Magestorm is different. A level 2 ment fighting a level 4 ment that minds you, you can't win. You can't dodge. You won't out DPS them. You just lose. 100% of the time. How am I supposed to enjoy this experience?

The best players in this game couldn't stop the worst clerics in this game from beating them. It doesn't matter how good your aim is, you simply don't do enough damage even if you register every single hit to the cleric rushing your shrine. Clerics have 480 effective HP with P5 on. Healing 7 heals 100 effective HP per cast for 15 mana. For comparison, Manastorm hits for 100 for 27 mana and it's the most mana efficient end game spell.

I don't care if you dislike all of my other suggestions, prayer is the #1 priority. Absolutely OP. 480 effective HP. Literally twice anyone else, with the ability to heal themselves. Ridiculous.

Prayer costs way too much mana to be considered a reactive skill and Magestorm isn't based around tedium.

I remember a few years ago you wanted to nerf Shrap Ball I because you didn't like me "machine-gunning" people down. So, please ask yourself, is 15 mana really that much? Would making Cleric's tankiness a little harder to maintain be worth it in exchange for more balanced gameplay?

You should be able to manage yourself well enough to afford 15 mana. If you're out of mana and you eat some damage naked, so be it. Clerics need some flaws, they need holes in their armor. They don't have any, and not only that, they're wearing full plate while the rest of us are in tatters.

Disclaimer: I like playing on clerics and I would like them not to be nerfed.

Hey man, believe it or not, I play support roles in most other games. I'd rather help my friends than kill my enemies. Hear me out for a second on why I think you should support a nerf for clerics.

You said you don't think clerics should join unless there's enough non-clerics to make it viable. This is exactly why clerics are bogus, because in small games one person can't stop the cleric. If clerics were fair, you could play a cleric in a small game with no guilt.

If clerics were beatable, you could play a 2v2 where one team has a cleric and the other doesn't and there's no problem because both teams have a chance.

The Shrap thing was a joke, I make jokes like that all the time. ;p

Right now P5 is 40% so their effective HP is 403.

I would be up to an even further reduction of Prayer 4/5.. P4 from 32 to 30, and P5 from 40 to 36.

We can also change W1/W2 from 2d4+0 to 1d4+2 which will change it from 2-8 damage to 3-6 damage.

[Deathrogue]

Can't we just enjoy the game having more than 10 people playing at a time!!

Yes clerics are tough, but it's low level. The only cleric who I can't kill is Healy. This is a team game, 2 skilled people can drop a cleric in a timely fashion.

Walls, 1 is ridiculous. the max is 7 I believe right? Maybe 5 is a good number.

We could get real crazy and hinder cleric attacks, like stop at wounding 3...Hey you wanna play a cleric, you heal, not attack...

[Healy]

I totally agree that clerics are way too powerful,but......
As a cleric you have to keep a whole team alive,while keeping urself alive.
You cant just one vs one a cleric of equal level and expect him to die easily,you have to play smart,with your team to counter him.
Clerics were balanced around that youd always be the main target.What i encountered lately is people just shooting my teammates while i heal them leaving me alone.Well guess what that wont work.
Lets not be hasty with nerfs,this game is very old and we have seen in the past that nerfs/new spells mostly make it unenjoyable.
If anything do slight nerfs to prayer like you suggested sorien.And we will see how that works out.

Dont give clerics more spells they already have enough versatility.
just my 2cents

[Kuraokami]

Just fiddle with it until you have 1:3 ratio on each class and a good game flow.

Keep in mind that with low player numbers, the variations in game flow will be wide due to individual skill levels not being diluted down by player counts.

[Kuraokami]

Also going to throw it out there that there is a big difference between being a support class because you like to support others and being a support class because you like being great at being support. If one's vision of a cleric is that they are a hero to the team, then one is self-interested first and interested in supporting others second, if at all.

[Apoc1313]

I'm not sure if this is practical to implement, but maybe you can leave clerics as they are, and just have a rule that a cleric cannot join a team unless the ratio of clerics to non-clerics is less than 1:4 or 1:5. <--- will never happen.

You cant just one vs one a cleric of equal level and expect him to die easily,you have to play smart,with your team to counter him.
Clerics were balanced around that youd always be the main target. <--- healy jus called clerics balanced, wow.


Also going to throw it out there that there is a big difference between being a support class because you like to support others and being a support class because you like being great at being support. If one's vision of a cleric is that they are a hero to the team, then one is self-interested first and interested in supporting others second, if at all. <--- kura thinks clerics are a support class, wow.